The Brandon newspaper religion controversy continues

So, the controversy I birthed continues, even w/out my help it continues, hehehe!!! There have been more letters to the editors and editorial pieces on the religion issue which I birthed or helped bring back to the surface. Before reading this post though please read the one before it which has my last letter to the editor in it-
Now to the newest stuff.


Tuesday, July 26th, 2005‘Far-Outs’ need to find themselves a hobby
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I find Billy Baker’s letter hilarious about disliking fundamentalists, but not Christians (July 21). Just because some liberal-minded Sun editor endorsed some of his ideas, Billy now thinks that his monologues are mainstream thinking and he is a guru to Brandon. How far out can that be?If for one moment he is under the impression that the majority of people in this community accept his reasoning as mainstream, he has a lot to learn. The label that I will apply to this group is the “Far-Outs.”Since with Billy’s and the Brandon Sun’s help in identifying and naming the so-called “fundamentalists” in our community, I would not expect anyone to whine about any personal attacks since that is what the “Far Outs” have been doing all the time about the so-called identified fundamentalists. I have a couple of questions and comments for the “Far-Outs:”• Give me specific incidents — dates, times, etc. — of harm, bombs, disruptions, etc. that the “fundamentalists” have done in this community (don’t forget that some of the charitable groups in Brandon have “fundamentalists” that run or are involved in operating these community helps).• Give me specific incidents –– dates, times, etc., –– of the positive things that the “Far-Outs” have done for the community — the key word is positive.• How many finances and volunteer hours did the “Far-Outs” donate to the homeless programs (other than StreetLove since that group may be “fundamentalist”)?• Why do the “Far-Outs” fear people who live good lives and who desire to see good things happen to their community by giving of their time and money?It makes sense to me to have people work together to make a community united rather than finding some far-out ideas to try to split the community. For the Far-Outs who have too much time on their hands: get out there and volunteer, get another job and donate some money to the underprivileged. Be a positive role model for society and get into the mainstream of Brandon society. HARVEY DUTKEWICHBrandon


[Now, I tried to respond to Harveys questions in a new letter that never got published{hey, I suppose the paper can't just always print my crap,LoL!!!} A sidenote, Harvey and I know each other and have a history. Harvey used to lead a "college and carreers" Bible study group that I attended when I was a believer. He and I did'nt get along very well ebcause he disliked that I challenged his authority,asked repeatedly tough theological and moral questions that put the faith on the stands, and because I'd sometimes wear gothic/metal make-up. Also, I have a history w/his wife Rosseane, she was the reason why my mom pulled me and my sister out of a particular church when I was like 5 or 6, because Roseane slammed me against a wall for talking to another kid during sunday school class, and I think I Probably mouthed her off for beeing misunderstanding of why I was talking in class; but christ man- that's no reason to take a five year old whom your teacvhing the babble..er..bible too and slam him against a wall!!! Anyways, after the above letter I went to a church service at the Church Harvey attends to answer his questions for him, I reasoned w/him and his wife and answered the questions the best I could, but Harv twisted it all, dodged important issues and questions himself, denied, and used the most inane of circular reasoning- as did his wife, it was very sad, I've met intelligent fundamentalists before whom use more recent apologetics and arguments and whom are actually a little open to reality and whatnot, but these two are like complete fucking morons when it comes to that-absolute anti-intellectuals-though they'd deny this, but that does'nt change the reality of the matter. Anyways, needless to say it went pretty ridiculously.; Anyways, onto the next "Brandon Sun" newspaper article]



Friday, July 29th, 2005Free to question faith
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It seems a simple question regarding whether religious leaders should be praying at city hall has turned into a moral battlefield. Bill Baker has every right in an open society to ask his questions. Should religious leaders be praying at city hall? Obviously, there are many opinions on this issue. Religious leaders have the right to pray. However, I don’t think they need to be at city hall to exercise that right. It would seem to me the appropriate place would be in their churches with their congregations. Mr. Baker in his letters is expressing his opinion about this issue. I assume he believes it merits serious debate. The responses from those opposed to his opinion are stereotypical attempts to misinform, marginalize people of different ideas, hurt, or create fear or are out right name-calling. I find this tactic very narrow-minded given the supposed nature of religious grace and community acceptance. On the other hand, maybe it is not grace that is required at all, but unquestioned obedience. I suppose it depends on your moral values. I know many people in Brandon who could be the target of Mr. Dutkewich’s attack. In fact, these people contribute in a significant way to the quality of life in Brandon. I called him on the telephone to discuss his questions but, alas, he told me he had no time for me and hung up. Perhaps Mr. Baker’s detractors could show somewhat more tolerance when they enter into public discourse. MIKE ABBEYBrandon

[Mike Abbey is a social worker if I am correct. He also is a politician whom has run for the NDP or New Democratic Party, a centralist yet left leaning political party to my understanding. Mike and I know each other-sorta, he seemed to be impressed w/me last year at a local debate between local political party candidates during the 2004 federal elections in Canada when I happenned to bring up the gay marriage issue and made a comment that everyone seemed to enjoy="democracy,not theocracy" as well as that I tore the Christian Heritage Party and Consevative Party candidates arguments to shreds in regards this issue. So, I see Mike from time to time at the Provicial building in Brandon, he and I have nice chats about politics and religion and whatever, he's a decent guy. Now for more "Brandon Sun" newspaper crap.]


Saturday, July 30th, 2005Politics, religion, passionBy: Ewan Pow
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“Last time we mixed politics with religion … people got burned at the stake”When I read the above printed on a bumper sticker last weekend I thought of the controversial prayer meetings at Brandon City Hall and had a little chuckle, but had no idea it would be a harbinger of a group discussion I would find myself in at mid-week.A group of four women and two men dropped by the Sun’s regular Wednesday morning community coffee gathering. It turned out they are members of the group that prays weekly at city hall and conversation eventually turned to the concern everyone doesn’t agree with their position prayer meetings at city hall is a good thing.This issue raised its head in a letter to the editor in the Brandon Sun on June 7 and spawned a series of letters, pro and con, since that time.Those in favour of this prayer group meeting at city hall see no harm in the practice. After all, what could the downside of having people pray for the mayor, councillors and city employees possibly be? On the surface, it appears pretty harmless.I asked why they would want to pray at city hall. Why not meet in one of the churches? One of the ladies answered saying they were part of a group called Prayer Canada and suggested I visit their website to see for myself what they are all about.On the Prayer Canada website (www.prayercanada.org) I found the following stated goal: “To establish prayer meetings in homes and churches, as well as weekly noon prayer meetings in city halls, and legislatures across the nation and beyond. If one has not been organized in your city and you could help, contact us.”The website also informed me in Manitoba only Brandon and Steinbach have prayer meetings in city hall. I’ll accept that as accurate although the same site also advises Virden, Griswold, Roblin, Warren, Killarney and Russell are all Manitoba cities with a population of 5,000 or more requiring prayer meetings.The Summer 2005 Prayer Canada’s newsletter, Prayer Post Courier, notes at the first annual Mayor’s Prayer Breakfast in Brandon: “A more than expected turnout taxed the caterer but the mayor and other authorities seemed to show very sincere concern for the Biblical principles so clearly emphasized. We believe great results are now underway. Thanks Jack and Peg and prayer team for your passionate concern to take the city for God.”Take the city for God?In this column in the June 11 Brandon Sun, I suggested some might view these folks as a lobby group. You know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it’s a duck. Well, they were clearly a lobby group last Wednesday and after reading through their online literature, like-thinking Christians will lobby their version of morality to anyone who will listen.Many of those against prayer meetings in city hall argue that entity and the dealings therein should and must remain secular.Another asked what message was being sent to City of Brandon employees. Are employees concerned their beliefs — or lack of belief — may impede their career advancement?Clearly, the group of six I met last Wednesday is committed to their cause, and you have to admire that steadfastness in anyone. It is also clear they take literally the following passage from the Bible printed in the Summer 2005 Prayer Canada newsletter, “When the righteous are in authority the people rejoice.” (Prov. 29.2)Any discussion involving religion or politics is pretty much always passionate. Mix the two together and any debate has the potential to become volatile. In the newspaper business, we would say this issue has legs. Don’t expect it to fall off the radar screen any time soon.Ewan Pow is the Brandon Sun’s publisher and his office is at the end of the hall. He can be reached at epow@brandonsun.com

[Also, Ewan wrote another peace or two showing suspician to the Mayor and another group, and another "sun" editor did the same as well a couple times. I do not have those particular artciles as they are no longer avaliable from the "Brandon Sun" website, but they basically are somewhat the same with different words and slightly different stuff., Now more "sun" crap.]



Tuesday, August 2nd, 2005Letter to the editor: Love one another, reader urges
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In response to the growing number of public letters that have been surfacing in recent months over the seeming debate of “fundamentalist” Christians as described by Mr. Baker in his letter Christians Not Under Attack, Fundamentalism is (July 21) and the growing opposition of said religion from the extremist or “Far-Outs” as described by Mr. Dutkewich in ‘Far-Outs’ Need to Find Themselves a Hobby (July 26), I would like to make a public appeal for both sides to look at what has become the real problem — mudslinging. First of all, I would like to point out that I am neither for nor against either faction which has arisen. Although I associate myself with the Christian faith, I was not raised in a Christian upbringing, which has given me the ability and right to understand the point of views which are now being brought to light. I have had the extreme pleasure of knowing a large number of the aforementioned people whose letters have been printed. But being a person who has known these people and their beliefs, I have also come to know that the background of all of these people does not revolve around them slinging mud at each other in their own attempts to defend their beliefs.If anything, this constant bickering has gotten in the way of getting to the heart of the matter: we live in a community, not just a city, that is based upon each person having the divine right to have varying points of view and accepting others for theirs, whether it be Christian, Muslim, Universalist, or even atheist.Going back through history, it must be noted that the very core of our rights as Canadian citizens has been based upon the right to be free, both in religious and intellectual thought and expression. Does this mean we have the right to vocally defend our beliefs? Yes it does. But the very value of our thoughts in any form also tells us that in order to survive and to come together equally as a community, we must bury the hatchet and accept each other as we are.So in the context of what has happened recently, I hope that it will become the mandate of each group involved to put this incident of words behind them and do what is right, and do what the people of Brandon are known for doing. We must open our hearts, bury the hatchet, love one another and come together as a community that accepts one another for their differences, instead of slinging mud at each others’ beliefs. Let us move forward, not backward.BRIAN SUTHERLAND Brandon

[I used to go to church/bible study and school w/Brian. I have nothing bad to say about him. Nice enough and reasonable enough guy. I do think personally that he is beeing a little naieve if he thinks that the Fundies in question-or fundies at all, are going to be so tolerant and fair, they won't be! Though they will put on that public mask of loveing attitudes, but beeing a former one of them and haveing seen their darker sides I know well that it is all show and hypocrisy and a shitstained smile they give out, it's plastic. Anyways, Brian wrote another reaoned plea for tolerance and kindness,etc, I have nothing bad to say about it or him, except to say that I do think that he's beeing a little naeive and falling their lies and tricks. But I once did myself too, so I can't really blame him that much. But his letters are indeed well though out, respectul to all and well reasoned. Again, he wrote another one before this, but it is not on the "Suns" page right now. ]

[There are more from me, the editors and publishers, christians and non-christians, pro and con my views and the fundies views, But I have'nt time to type them all in here right now, and they are not avalibale unfortunately in the Suns archives at the moment, so these will have to suffice].

In Reason:
The Very irreverand
Bill Baker