UPDATE on the prayer meeting/mayor-city hall/newspaper, controversy.

First to get the full context of this issue, please scroll down and read the post below this one, my original post on the matter/issue, that post wiull tell you to go to my other blog and read, do that{if you have'nt allready, and then return here to read this post;


First here is an update on what transpired after my original letter to the editor of the local newspaper about the issue of the fundy prayer meeting in the Mayors office.
First they published my original letter in the paper. Two days later they did a front page cover story on the cotroversy, with all the plaeyers opinions and what happenned,etc{Myself, the Myor, a city counsllor, well-they did'nt have anything from the religious leaders whom held the meeting}.]
The Mayors response was typcial,evasive,deceptive, and he showed a lack of understanding of satanism,paganism, and "others" whose religions he "thinks" are BLANKET anti-religious and that he "thinks" "go against the grain".

So, I wrote another letter to the editor to address his prejudgedmental misconceptions, and also to correct the Article writer for a mistake in reporting on who I am and what I do{he called me a University student, and understandable mireading oif my email address westman@UNIVERSIST.COM}.

Anyways, here is todays letter to the editor from me,a supporting letter from another citizen of my city who gives me praise for what I've done, and... the newspapers publisher short article peace of support of me and furhter questionong of the mayors and the religious groups deceptiveness:


ACTUALLY HERE IS THE FULL LETTER:{They did however altar it a bit in the newspaper from what it says here, they made it look better with less grammatical,spelling erros,etc; and in places where I SORTA REPEAT MYSELF OR DRAG ON THEY SHORTENED IT UP A BIT OR RE-WROTE IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT BUT GET THE SAME POINTS ACROSS: oops..sorry for the "shouting" there-the "caps lock' button keeps getting stuck in place w/out me noticing it and I don't feel like going back to correct it, LoL!!! I'm lazy, sorry}

.LETTER TO EDITOR: "RELIGIOUS GROUPS SHOULD PAY TO USE CITY HALL".Thank you for printing my letter about the prayer meeting in Mayor Burgess office,and thank you for the front page article on the matter.I wanted to clear up a couple misunderstandings that appeared in the June 9th,front page article.First, I am not a University student{at the moment}. I think that this misunderstanding is from my email address which ends with @universist.com. Universism is a faithless freethought pseudo-religion that unites Atheists,Agnostics,Deists,Pantheists, and Trancendentalists. I figured I should clear this up, again I am not currently a University student, and the misconception is likely from the email address.Second, Mayor Burgess should indeed make an apology, even if, as Councillor Barletta put it,it is an "isolated incident". Because as we can see in your article, Mayor Burgess is playing favoritism at least to "some" degree as I said before in my letter. Mayor Burgess ignorant attitude against Satanists{and "others"} is appalling. Let me make this clear to you,"most"{not neccaserily "all"} Satanists don't 'oppose' "all" other religions, they 'oppose' those ones that seek to dominate above everyone else, that think they alone have the one true way and thereby demonize all other religions/non-religions. Mayor Burgess says he's not respectful of those that have an anti-religious attitude. REALLY? Hmmm..what do you call those fundamentalists you allowed to pray in your office? I know for a fact that they are anti-religion against EVERY other religion and non-religion in existence, I used to be one of them; in fact I used to be involved w/Bethel Temple. So, I't's ok for these people whom think every other religion,non-religion, and even many sects of those that share their basic faith is demonically decieved and must be saved from that belief to do this, that is'nt anti-religious; but those groups that are opposed to that kind of one wayist arrogant attitude and are ok w/other religions that are'nt of that kind of prejudgement and arrogance are anti-religiuos, please explain the logic of this argument to me?! As far as those that go against the grain, please- elaborate, is that why you were hesitent abaout paganism too{ie: Wicca, Asatru, Odinism,etc}? It saddens me to see that this kind of ignorance and double-standard still exists here. It's acceptable for those that think EVERY belief/unbelief and even many sects of their own faith are evil and demonically decieved,etc, and to be opposed and saved from their wicked ways,to do such things and are respected for it; and yet those that are democratically minded and oppose only those religions that are like that, and do not oppose those that are'nt so much so. Wow! I'm truly disgusted at these hypocritical double-standard. I think burgess owes a public apology to those freethinking,progressive non-revealed religions that he has just insulted as well as those that he by proxy has insulted{other revealed religions included} by assuming that fundamentalist christians are respectful of other religions whilst satanists,pagans, and other groups that go against the grain {but are more fair and just in their thinking}are not- and are anti-religious. Truly this ignorance should be addressed and altered. Obviously, the fundamentalists mindsets have indeed had a subversive affect on the Mayor after all{just as I suspected}I propose that "if" this is going to be allowed in City Hall, that Brandon do something akin to what Winnipeg does, and make religious groups pay up first. But I do demand that Mayor Burgess publicly apologize for his lack of understanding and his ignorant double-standarded comments making satanists,pagans, and those myterious "others"{please elaborate on whom?} anti-religious and "against the grain"{whatever that means} and bad, whilst making the fundamentalists whom by nature of their fundamentalist faith see EVERY other belief/unbelief and even sects of their own faith as demonically decieved,sinful,evil. Also, I hope that he will apologize for allowing them to hold their worship service in his office, "isolated incident"or not, as the Maypr he should have known better, he is obviuosly trying to shirk responsibility for his mess up.I hope this letter will be published for a few reasons. {1} to clear up the "university student" confusion, and {2} to clear up the ignorant misconceptions and double-standards of that Mayor Burgess spoke and showed. and {3} to show that those so-called "anti-religious", "against the grain" groups are actually more fair and equality minded than the fundamentalists that have been showered w/praise when they are by nature quite the opposite.Thank you again to the "Brandon Sun" for allowing me to address this very important issue of religious tolerance, equality, and seperation of church and state.I appreciate it, and others of like mind likely thank you as well.In Reason: Bill Baker


Now here is the newspaper publishers response and thee reponse from the local citizen:


Here are those articles. First, what the newspaper publisher had to say about the issue{his name is Ewan Pow}, and then what the local citizen wrote{the local citizens name is Tanya A. Ross}


.EWAN POW:{quote}Mayor Dave Burgess told the Brandon Sun he makes no apologies for letting religious groups use Brandon City Hall for prayer meetings. The issue was raised in a letter to the editor in last Tuesadays Sun. The Writer, Bill Baker, questioned the appropriatness of holding, as he described, "fundamentalist prayer meetings" in the Mayors office.Mr.Burgess Told the Sun neither he nor other City Hall administration took part in the session saying "...they pray for the work of city services and elected officials and the city at large. I think that's a very credible,worthy endeavor to take on". The Use of City Hall for that meeting was not an isolated occasion. City communications staff reported this particular group has been meeting at City Hall for about three years.Forgive my cynicism, but I can't help but feel there is an ulterior motive for meeting at City Hall. After all I am sure there is adequate space in one of the churches for such a prayer meeting. Some might view them as a lobby group. You know- if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it's a duck.Last month, intergovernmental affairs and trade minister Scott Smith wondered out loud whether Brandon should rethink the choice it made against gambling less than three years ago. Mr. Burgess was annoyed, saying for the minister to even bring it up risks tearing the community apart and fuelling the racial tensions that marred the casino debate.Bethel Christian Assembly Pastor Mike Davis claimed the the city's clergy was even more opposed to a city casino today than it was in 2002.Citizens of Brandon can legitametely ask whether or not a third party influenced the city's position on casinos unduly.City Council and administration need to be conciuos of the optics of such use of 410 ninth street. Ewan Pow{Brandon Sun Publisher}-{unquote}



Letter the Editor:KUDOS TO BAKER:{QUOTE} I just read Bill Bakers recent letter to the editor{June 7}. I found it to be a well-reasoned, articulate expression of concern about the influence that a select few local religious groups may have at City Hall.Mr. Bakers letter served to expose an important issue that many others were too timid to write about. That took courage on his part. I look forward to reading future letters written by Mr.Baker regardding issues of concern to him.Tanya A.Ross. Brandon {UNQUOTE}



This is truly awesome folks. Brandon {my city} is alot like the Southern States of the U.S. heavily inundated w/evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity. To have this kind of impact for the faithless, the freethinking the non-fundamentalists, and the people{including those of faith} that are concerned about seperation of church and state beeing honoured; well, I'm shocked that the respose to this thus far has been so positive to be honest, seriuosly shocked!!! and happy the culture war in indeed on!!!



p.s. I think another reason this is of concern to the local newspaper and some other citizens is because last yeaar w/the mayors approval some workers from city hall were sent to America on a "business training trip: to the U.S. to a conference held by a Christian evangelical business group, and they were sent on the citys dime.


Anyways, this is what has traspired, I will continue to keep you informed of what happens.

In Reason:
The very irreverand Bill Baker

My invasion of a Fundamentalist Payer meeting in Local Mayors office and subsequent events.

Read about this at my other Blog= "Raving-Madman": http://raving-madman.blogspot.com

In Reason:
The Very Irreverand Bill Baker

Formation of the Iconoclastithon{my anti-testimony}/ABOUT ME{and this blog}

Name: Bill Baker Age:26 Gender/sex:Male, Sign: Libra, D.O.B.:October 19th/1978 , Sexual Preferance:Heterosexual , Race: All and yet None.

Religious/irreligious beliefs:"Eclectic Freethinker"= Universism{w/leanings towards Pantheism,Deism,and Panendeism}, Elements of Satanism/Luciferianism, elements of Neo-Pagan thought and Taoist thought{all upheld and encircled by a spirit of Agnostic Skepticism} and a respect for any progressive/relativistic/non-absolutist/non-revealed religion and philosophy.

Patron Unsaint{s}: Lucifer/Satan

Other Unsaints: Thomas Paine, Fox Mulder,

The god/ess of my choice: REASON

Where I reside: Soutwestern Manitoba,Canada, North America, Earth, this Social System,The Milky Way Galaxy, This particular Universe and reality.

:Note: the following anti-testimonial deals specifically w/my life in regards to my spiritual journey, and omits most info in relations to other aspects of my life; However, if anyone wishes to know more about me, they may ask here or email me and ask, email is either Iconoclastithon@faithless.org or westman@universist.com

I, Bill Baker, raised as a Christian, and having asked Jesus into my heart while I was a little boy of about 5 or 6;
continued in that faith my whole life and did the "brainwashed again"...err..."Born again" routine and dedicated myself to the Christian faith and it's Propagation around 16-17 years of age. I spent several years as a devoted Christian metal-head, my mission was to reach out with the good news of the gospel of Christ{ahem, try bad news of the idea of damntion based on theoloigcal beliefs} to metal-heads and other people on the fringes. I was a self-proclaimed{as my chosen pseudonymns} "Anti-Satan" and especially "Lucificide"{murder of Lucifer/as in the Lucifer of Christian mythology}.

Like a good drone, I tried to supress doubts about thw faith and believe the weak arguments of Christian apologetics. In February of 2001 my Mother was taken by Cancer, this propelled me into seriuosly questioning the integrity of the God of the Babble....er...I mean Bible.

To backtrack a bit, I had spent those several years paranoid that I'd commited the "unpardonable sin"{Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit} due to the phrase "Fuck the Holy Spirit" occuring in my mind; this led to more blasphemous thoughts, which in turn led to other horrible kinds of obsessive thoughts{due to Obsessive Compulisve Disorder} and years of psychological torment; if there was a hell, my mind felt like it wa sin it. Blasphemy, violence,perversions, of every kind dominated my mind. In retrospect, if I had not heeded the thought crime crap that Jesus of Nazareth and Jehovah,their so-called propehets and saints talked of in the Bible, I I had not felt so guilty for regular sexual thoughts and masturbation and accompanying natutality about women, or fear and guilt for averager angry thoughts, I would not have developed O.C.D., and if I had still devleoped it-it would'nt have been as bad and as agitated. However, because of such, it was bad enough that I had to drop outa high school with about half the required credits, which has led to years of issues and of living w/Parents and beeing on Welfare until the last year, Now I am on my own, still on welfare and having a difficult time finding work to due to health issues; however, I am getting my G.E.D. and planning to go to University, all this progress as a result of dropping the dangerous lie of the broken and posion tipped crutch of revealed faith.

After my mother passed, coupled w/years of mental torment and guilt, I spent several months questioning babblegod and raised alot of hell w/forbidden questions and exposing of faith at Bible study groups,Church, and w/religious leaders and groups in my area that I was connected to.
In September, 2001, after allmost converting to Wicca{a fine religion in itself}, I embraced my former faith in full swing, with the opinion added on that God was not engendered and that the Bible was not infallible.

For about a year, I remained such; and due to a book about homosexuality and sexual issues from a ultra-liberal Bishop named John Shelby Spong{ "Living in sin; a bishop rethinks human sexuality"; as well as one of his other books "A new Christianity for a new World"} leant to me by a good friend, I became a liberal Christian for about a year or so.

After a time of scrutinizing the faith, I renounded in in full in January 2004 and discovered Deism. I continued on as a Deist and soon co-opted some Pantheistic ideas{and Panendeistic} as well. In late spring of 2004 I discovered Universism{Not to be confused w/Universalism,Unitaianism, Unitarian Universalism}-a faithless freethought philosophical pseudo-religion/umbreall social movement of Athiests,Agnostics,Deists,Pantheists,Trancendentalists,etc, and have since been devoted to this freethought movement and it's principles; though as of recent I started looking into Neo-Paganism/Wicca agaim, then I looked itno and adopted some ideas from some branches of Satanisn/Luciferianism, as well as some Neo-Pagan and Taoist ideas and principles as well. As such, I am now a "Eclectic Freethinker".

Since I first became a freethinker, I've set about to learn more about and to expose the Christian faith{and revealed religion in general} and it's fallacies and dangers.
I continue to learn more all the time that makes me more ardent to ideollogically and socially and politically challenge and expose Christianity, the other Abrahamic faiths, and all revealed religion that is absolutist and one way-st, that claim a monopoly on deity{the divine and the larger questions}/love/peace/eternity/ethics and morality/etc; and yet when their 'holy' books are read abjectively, Biblegods nature is one mor elike the tribal males whom created him{and of the same nature that Satan/lucifer was "FRAMED" for}= jealous,vengeful, poor self-esteem which needs to have "his" ego-stroked like a child, a violent but masked as a "loving father" tyrant!

That is the purpose of this blog, to do just that-expose.
Now, I still believe personally/subjectively/relativistically in the "high possibility/or probability" of some form of Creator or Creative and sentient/intelligent Force or energy that either kickstarted it all or is a part of it all and evolving as it all evolves as it is is everything.
I bounce back and forth between the belief in the scintist like watch maker grand architect of Deistic thought and new-agey Pantheism/PanenDeism{the idea that the Universe itself IS this thing or at leats a "part" of this thing, and consequently we too are ourselves "gods/goddessess" or rather we are collectively along w/all that exists here-this thing/god/creator/force/Cosmocreator/dark energy/dark force/black flame/light force/whatever the hell you'd like to call it}. I don't claim to "love' this thing, because I have no proof that it loves me/us, I certainly admire it's power and the things it has created though, and I am thankful for the gift of "reason" that it set to be in the process of evolution that would eventually start to grow w/in us as sentient living beeings.
I also am drawn to the idea that our "collective in/conciuos" is this thing, and all gods and goddesses,et,c are just mainig\festaions of our own will and have a pseudo-life as arhetypes because of our creating them and giving them existence and power{which uis why some of them need to be killed in my opinion; jealous and childish tyrant gods like Yaweh/Christ,Allah,etc for example; other ones can have their uses, and I especially am drawn to the uses of the mythical fallen and rebel demi-gods and angels whom rebelled against tyrant head gods and sough to bring enlightenment to the humans,etc}. I also see nothing but tyranny in those particular Creator gods and I see hypocrisy w/in their Christs and prophets and so-called "saints".
Since I do not know quite enough about Islam or about Judaism{outside of what is in the Hebrew Scriptures used and perverted by the Christian bible and faith}, my focus will for now be mainly or only on Christianity.

There will be several different parts to this blog.
Info on my hopeful future project to start a "Church of Apostasy" a pseudo-religion/irreligion/umbreall social movement. As well as exposes on the Christian money machine or exsess wealth and power and influence, and Christian fashion and entertainment called "Cash-in of the Christ"; also exposes on Christian apologetics rhetoric of the popular catchphrases that are absurd and to some extent even defy what their Babble{Bible}says. I will include letters to editors and updates on my activism against faith/christianity; as well as other activism; a section containing occaional rants{of variuos kinds} of mine; sections exposing Bible atrocities and contradictions and exposes of the true Character/nature of babblegod and of Jesus. A section w/all sorts of links. And whatever else my warped apostate brain comes up with.

Hold on tight, fasten your seatbelts, and be forwarned, Icons of Christianity will be smashed and pissed on! Many will be offended to varrying degrees, many will be impartial and have no opinion for or against this, some will possibly herald me as a hero and/or love me{please no hero-worship; but your praises for my worl or your critisizms are quite welcome}.
I encourage anyone whom wishes to leave a comment in regards to any of these particular sections{favorable or not}; and/or you can email me.
Iconoclastithon@faithless.org or westman@universist.com .
Grab a bag of popcorn, hold a loved one close for comfort, oh....and prepare for an assault on cherished ideologies, as I perform Iconoclastithon{a marathon of iconoclasm} on them!

Peace and enjoy.

LINKS!

My other blog= "Raving Madman"- http://raving-madman.blogspot.com
and my other blog: "Day of Reason": http://day-of-reason.blogspot.com

Religion/philosophy that I personally embrace or endorse as viable:
United Universists= http://www.universist.org/ {I am a member}
The Faithless Community{a United Universist project}= http://www.faithless.org/ {I am a member}
World Union of Deists= http://www.deism.com/ {I am a flip-flopping Deist}
Deism, The union of Reason and Spirituality= http://deism.org/
Deistnet= http://www.deistnet.com/
Universal Pantheist Society= http://www.pantheist.net/ {I am a flip-flopping Pantheist}
World Pantheist Movement= http://www.pantheism.net/
Panendeism= http://www.panendeism.com/ {This is a phiossophy I also like, it's like Pantheism,Panentheism, and Deism mixed as one}
Celtic Connection; Wicca and Paganism= http://www.wicca.com/ {I fully endorse; though am not one; the Wiccan faith/religion-or at least some branches of it; I am a friend of the Wiccan/pagan/and neo-paan religions and community; however there is a trend of Favoritism shown towards Christianity and the other Abrahmic faiths beeing shown by many western Wiccans/Neo-Pagans, but this is not nessacerily reflective of Wicca and Neo-Paganism themselves}
Neopagan= http://www.neopagan.net/ {same as above}
Bhuddhism= http://www.budhanet.com/ {Buddhism is the one ancient religion that still exists today as a major world religion that I respect for the most part}
The Agnostic Church= http://www.agnostic.org/ {This is by means what all agnosticism is; but I thought I'd include it; I am ot agnostic-but I personally view it as the most rational starting point in matters of theology,etc; and, it's the view I think all children should be raised with while beeing taught about ALL religions and philosophies-as agnosticism is the most unbiasd perspective}
Satanism/The "First Church of Satan"= http://www.churchofsatan.org/ {this is not the well-known "Church of Satan"-of Anton Lavey; though they do asociate w/Laveyans, they are more balanced{kinda like Taoists};Laveyans on the other hand are more elitist, which given what they are, is not nessacerily a bad thing}
"The Church of Lucifer":= http://luciferian.org/ or http://www.churchoflucifer.org {Similar to Satansism, but w/slight differences
Focuses more the LUCIFER="light-bearer" principle, one of the four crown princes of hell; I am a member of this group.}
"Church of Satan": http://www.churchofsatan.com/

Vexen Crabtrees "Satanism" site: http://www.dpjs.co.uk/ {Vexen is a gothic satanist. this site is VERY well done and professional, and very informative and enlightening}
Vexen Crabtrees personal site/page: http://www.vexen.co.uk/vexen/

Diane Vera's "Theistic Satanism" site{very in depth and balanced approach to Satanism: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/

Religious Tolerance{a site dedicated to unbiased and proper info about ALL world religions and philosophies}= http://www.religioustolerance.com/


Thomas Paines "Age of Reason" -online= http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.html/
http://libertyonline.hypermail.com/paine/AOR-Frames.html
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/

Famous Apostates:
Charles Templeton{Co-Founder of Youth For Christ, and former fellow evangelist of Billy Grahams}= http://www.templeton.com/charles {this is his Son Brads site, and is about both of them}.
Pages devoted to Salman Rushdie and his works{apostate Muslim, author of "The Satanic Verses"}= http://www.subir.com/rusdie.html/

Roger Martinez{famous ex-christian founder of Christian thrash/death metal band "Vengeance Rising"}= First- Rogers newest site/blog entitled "Warpath of the Fatherless" = http://vengeance-rising.blogspot.com {on which he has a Testimonial written by me entitled "Cry of the Iconoclastic Heart-a warpath testimonial"}, and next his older site= http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/dj/446/satanism.html/

Gabriel C. Zolmans sites:
"Tunnel at the end of the light"/"Subverse Media":= http://subversemedia.bravehost.com/
And his blog= "The Amen Corner": http://the-amen-corner.blogspot.com

Society for Humanistic Jews= http://www.shj.org/

Ex-Christians= http://www.exchristian.net/
Losing my Religion= http://www.losingmyreligion.com/

Ex-Muslims= http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.secularislam.org/

Reason= http://www.reason.com/

Exposing Xianity Revealed Religion= http://www.evilbible.com/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.religionisbullshit.org/
http://www.antichrist.net/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.html

Sam Harris{author of book, "The end of faith; religion, terror, and the future of reason"}= http://www.samharris.org/

Land Over Baptist Church{satirical site}= http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Atheist sites and seperation of Church and State\ Secular\Rationalist:
The Secular web/ Internet Infidels= http://www.infidels.org/
Godless= http://www.godless.org/
Athiest law= http://www.atheistlaw.org/
The Brights= http://www.the-brights.net/
Athiest Alliance= http://www.atheistalliance.org/
http://www.athiesm.com/
http://www.positiveatheism.org/

Freethought Today Newspaper= http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/

Evolvefish= http://www.evolvefish.com/

Skeptic Magazine= http://www.skeptic.com/

What Is Enlightenment magazine{ open-ended spiritual zine, not athiest}= http://www.wie.org/

Humanist sites:
Humanist Association of Canada= http://hac.humanist.net/
Coucil for Secular Humanism= http://www.secularhumanism.org/
Humanist association of Ottawa= http://ottawa.humanists.net/

Freedom from religion foundation= http://www.ffrf.org/

The Freethinker zine= http://www.freethinker.co.uk/ {secular humanist monthly}


Bible Atrocities:
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.shtml/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/biblegod.html/

THE BURNING TIMES= http://www.malaspina.com/burnwitc.htm


Religious Sites for informational purposes {some which I may personally endorse and/or condone; others I'm not as keen on or am personally undecided about}:



will be back w/more sites; stay tuned.